Talk:Torani Kulda/@comment-78.149.4.66-20171024130007/@comment-454133-20171024161335

TL;DR: I want to provide a counter-balance opinion. I think that a few autodamage effects are a problem (e.g. bombs), but most are not. You're panicking over the wrong things. Turrets are a greater problem than Torani. Jumpmasters are a greater problem than Torani.

First, currently the debate on this card's interpretation hadn't been resolved, but I personally suspect that this card will follow the same rules as others and allow you to discard 0 tokens (if you don't have tokens) to not take damage. You only take damage if you have tokens and refuse to give them up. Even if that turns out to not be the case, you have to have the skill to line up ships with this narrow beam, and I'm guessing that's harder than you're imagining.

Second, the way you phrased things sounds like you're really misunderstanding how the game works on an actual table.

For one thing, Darth Vader (Crew)'s downside is that he rapidly kills your own ship. Actually try flying a fleet with him equipped on a Lambda or Decimator and see if he feels all-powerful in your own hands. In my experience he has to be used extremely judiciously to avoid just granting half or full points to your opponent, which could easily be worse than what you got out of killing an enemy ship. Reacting to theoretical threats will put you in a very threatened position, but it shouldn't. There's a reason you don't see Darth crew much outside of very casual games.

Also overall... you're talking nonsense. X-Wing Miniatures is not Magic: The Gathering. This is an intensely skill-based game. You're not just constructing a 40-card net deck and following a flowchart to victory; that will get you destroyed in this game. Fleet construction is only a fraction of the task, along with maneuvering your ship on a 2D plane, planning your turns, getting inside your opponent's head, knowing when to use reposition abilities, understanding the value of every point in your fleet, deciding when to increase PS or dump it, understanding how to lay traps or escape them, and so on. If you try to netdeck your way to victory, a more skilled player will wipe the floor with you.

Autodamage is a very limited feature in this game, always with some kind of downside or other limit. Even if you add every autodamage feature you can get in your fleet, it's still hard to win that way. You have to be able to create the situations that let your autodamage work for you, and that takes skill, planning, experience,   and  cleverness. If you manage to Darth Vader your foe to death without giving too much away in the process, then you are skilled and clever, or your opponent is inexperienced.

So your proclamation that "then it ceases to be a game and simply becomes a formality" tells me you're a lot more green than you may realize. You don't know the game as well as you could: there's room to grow. This is a good thing! You can develop new skills and figure out ways to thwart the strategies that trouble you. I don't think the game is in that bad a state right now; you're exaggerating and possibly influenced by a few experiences where you didn't know what to do against some strategy, but there's always something you can do. We can give advice and help you if you're still stuck on something.

Finally, Torani is small potatoes, and autodamage isn't inherently evil or strong. Consider the state of most autodamage effects: BMST are rarely used, Captain Oicunn + Daredevil saw a brief revival with Inspiring Recruit before fading back into obscurity. Ten Numb never sees play these days. What else is there?

The two autodamage sources that are the largest problem right now, IMO, are  Bombs (particularly Bomblet Generator on Captain Nym with "Genius") and Autoblaster Turret (also on Nym; the Ghost's autoblaster shenanigans are cute but not terribly strong once your foe figures you out). Really, Nym has been a problem for the game overall, and you have to change your strategy to deal with him (and he's made it very hard to fly delicate aces). K-Wing + Cluster Mines by all accounts are getting a nerf in the upcoming FAQ (a change to Advanced SLAM), and presumably so is Nym. People are also worried about the upcoming rebel bomber that can launch bombs.

So Bombs are the autodamage source that most often comes up among experienced players. Bombs are the autodamage source people care about. But outside of the Scurrg's and some other bomb ships'   abuses, autodamage just doesn't play a major role in the game. Autoblaster Turret is hard for most ships to pull off (only the Scurrg finds it easy) and it's a dangerous gamble. Twitchy effects like BMST are not impressive. Darth Vader has to be used extremely judiciously.

And Torani? Hah! If you perfectly line up a ship, you make them choose whether to discard their tokens (which probably includes 0 or more) or else they take a damage. Torani is weak sauce compared to the power of bombs, turrets, Dengar (really the Jumpmaster in general), and other top-meta tricks. There are problems with this game that the community would love to see resolved, but Torani simply isn't one of them.

I hope I've helped cool your concerns, and I also hope I haven't been too rude in the process. But I've played this game extensively for a while, both casually and in tournaments, and a ship like Torani doesn't worry me (and your claim that it stops being a game because Darth crew exists is crazy). The Scurrg and upcoming Rebel Bomber do somewhat worry me... But I've found strategies for dealing with the Scurrg, and hopefully FFG fixes its power abuses soon.